I wanted to share a comment on one of my posts from Ivan and open it up to discussion, because I think it's interesting and because it pertains to this week's series on marriage which just concluded yesterday.Here is his comment. What is your opinion? How would you answer his questions?
Thanks, Ivan!
Dear Sue
This is a great series on marriage, so thank you.
I agree with what you say --- the need for constant attention and renewal, the worth perseverance.
Could I ask about the last verse from Mark: "Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."?
Is it always the case that a marriage is God joining people together? Are not some marriages entered into for the wrong reasons (e.g., someone marries to get their hands on the other's money)?
Conversely, isn't it possible that God separates two people? Everything happens with God's will, so if people separate, God willed it, but I don't mean to go that deep. If God can bring people together, surely He can part them too.
(disclaimer: none of this is about my marriage!)
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A few thoughts about the comment:
ReplyDelete1) "Everything happens with God's will".. sin is not God will.. so just because God allows things to happen does not mean that He always wills them to happen.
2) "surely He can part them too". I would like an example of such an instance. If God parted a married couple it probably would not resemble the divorce proceedings we witness these days. I suspect that sin and not God is the thing that separates husbands and wives these days.
The Church already addresses this question. Every marriage that meets certain very basic criteria is presumed valid, and every valid marriage between two Christians is sacramental. We can introduce a doubt to the proper authorities so that they may investigate whether the couple actually failed to contract a true marriage, but we need to err on the side of viewing and treating each individual marriage as a couple brought together by God in the most profound of ways -- through a sacrament.
ReplyDeleteDear Sue,
ReplyDeleteYikes! I mean, Thank you for your kind words and foregrounding my question like this. Bob and Teresa, thank you for your answers.
Bob: I don't understand how anything can exist or happen that is not part of God's will. How can something happen without being willed by God? But that's a separate question.
Examples: the only things I can think of are where one partner is being systematically abused (beaten up, robbed, etc.) by the other partner. Less extreme i can think of a few mariages among my friends that were just big mistakes and should never have happened.
Theresa: this makes sense to me, with the authority of the church representing the authority of God. But it does presuppose a church (and which church? and does it mean marriages contracted outside that church --- with other churches, or secular marriages --- are not people being brought together by God?). Jesus' teaching has to be applicable to people living outside a church (see eg Romans chapter 2). I can read "church" as "community" but the problem still stands.
So, what do I think? I live outside any church or Christian community, and I'm reading the Bible for the first time. I note that in the scripture (Mark 10:7-9) Jesus does not mention marriage. Finally, if all things happen by God's will, what is Jesus talking about? I can only imagine He's talking about aspects of God, specifically the Holy Spirit.
For me God's bringing people together means just true love and it is the action of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what raises people toward God, and I think what brings people together in love. We know that following the Holy Spirit is hard work and involves extra challenges (eg the Holy Spirit took Jesus out into the wildreness to be challenged by Satan). We know that people can fail to meet the challenge of the Holy Spirit, either through evil, sin, or just worldy cares.
I think the Holy Spirit can bring people together outside of marriage. I think the Holy Spirit can pull people apart. Importantly, I think the Holy Spirit can act on people without their knowing (Romans 2 again).
I think marriage can be a kind of public recognition of and commitment to this true love but, "the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath", and at the end of the day, it's just a formality.
Your turn, Sue :D, and thanks again!
Ivan
@Ivan: Guess it depends on your understanding of "God's will".. I think that Adam and Eve rebelled against His will and mankind still rebels against it.. if we didn't then all would follow Him.
ReplyDelete